Derrick: So who wants to start on this one?
Rowan: I'd say the one with the least complicated religious beliefs should probably go first, right? And I'd say that would be you Cam. After all, you're the atheist here.
Cameron: I'd say the fact that I identify as an atheist requires a more complex explanation than "I'll reference Saint Hazel when I'm trying to avoid outright cursing, or maybe when I'm praying to land a big client, but I don't really practice any organized religion."
Rowan: Hey! I've prayed to Saint Hazel for more than that...I prayed to her on your behalf you know...many, many times...
Cameron: Well...while I do appreciate that...I still believe your religious beliefs will take the least amount of time to...really elaborate on.
Rowan: I don't know, Derrick's are pretty simple if I remember correctly. He only prays to one god afterall...
Derrick: Well yes and no, there are many equine gods and godesses that fall under the general 'preygansim' banner, in that they aren't largely organized. Like, every tribe or different species of equine has at least one or more gods. Now that those tribes are all...more or less connected due to the way Animalia has progressed, we have a bunch of different ones that most equine folk are generally comfortable picking and choosing on a personal level. Us Mesa Valley horses tend to lean on either Spirit or his mate Rain to aspire toward, and pray to. Naturally, when given the choice...well I picked Spirit, who represents being free and untamed, not to mention being super fertile. *Chuckles*
Cameron: Yep, I'd say Spirit seems right up your alley for a 'spiritual mentor.' *chuckles*
Derrick: Cim'Marron is tied to Spirit and Rain as essentially being our version of like...Asgrowl, The Pridelands, or a general like...heaven. Cim'marron, the eternal meadow of good and plenty, where one can always run free. Of course, there are other sects who worship deities or saints like Marengo, Bucephalus, Seabiscut, Pegasus...and many of them come with their own name for an afterlife, but I could spend literal days talking about that...and it's pretty boring to be honest. Just know that Spirit, Rain and Cim'marron tend to be the preferred choice for equines living in North Mammalia. Or at least, that's what you'll run into most commonly.
Rowan: Well...now that you've prattled all of that off...I feel inferior. I hadn't really planned to go that deep myself.
Cameron: *Chuckles* It's alright Row...not like I'm in any position to judge...
Rowan: Well, as Cameron mentioned...I'm not exactly the most devout Simbologist...
Derrick: Wait, you're a Simbologist? I thought you'd be...y'know...some sorta mouse religion.
Rowan: You're thinking 'Rodentism', which is sort of like the 'Preyganism' umbrella for rodent folk. But no...my parents were Simbologists, and their parents before them...so that's what I was chiefly exposed to during my youth and...well I just never really gave much thought to changing it because...it doesn't play into my life all that often.
Derrick: So then what's with Hazel? She's like Squirrel right? In Simbology?
Rowan: Well you see, after the collapse of the Pridelands empire, there was sort of a big push to reforge it through theology. One way of doing that was sort of...pulling in other deific figures from other mammalian religions and sanctifying them, as well as making certain historical figures of varying species saints to draw a bigger variety of species to Simbology. This is also why they ended up adding a 'good hyena' to the religion in the form of Saint Jasiri, as the old Pridelands had spent most of their existence demonizing them and treating them as largely second-class mammals. Of course, they were forced to relinquish her sainthood after protests from a majority of Hyenians accusing them of 'poaching sacred religious icons' from them.
Cameron: And that was the case with Hazel...
Rowan: Well, yes and no...
Cameron: It's a yes. Unlike Robin Hood or Marian, Hazel didn't actually exist. Camelot didn't exist, Arthur Lionheart didn't exist, so naturally, Hazel didn't exist either seeing as she's part of that fable. She was poached.
Rowan: Hazel was considered one of the deific figures of Rodentism, along with her mother Madam who was seen as a figure of great wisdom and knowledge.
Derrick: And what was Hazel meant to represent?
Rowan: Youth and fertility I believe, as well as courtship. Which admittedly did sort of survive when she was dragged into Simbology's hall of sainthood.
Cameron: Now, did the Arthurian story come before her adoption as a saint, or after?
Rowan: I'd have to say before. If it came after...it'd have to be very soon after. The Camelot story is sort of...intrinsic to her Simbological interpretation. In Rodentism she falls in love with a mammal outside her species as well, but it's a fox, not a lion, and their union is denied by forces beyond their control. The fox is merely a wise and cunning fighter of the old Preygan age, so old in fact his name has sort of been lost to time...
Cameron: Oh, so that's why I've only ever heard of him described as the "wise" or "noble" fox.
Rowan: Right! *chuckles* I must say, both versions are quite ahead of their times in terms of interspecies romance, which is highly unusual. But in the Arthurian legend, when Leodore is turned back into a lion, Hazel feels betrayed and turns from him. Whereas the 'wise todd' wishes to stay and be with Hazel, despite being unable to have kits together, but he is slain by a lion warrior soon after trying to protect the forest they all live in from the invading Pridelands.
Cameron: Well...I can see why they decided to change it...it wouldn't exactly paint a great picture of their...superior lion bloodline, would it? They have a hard enough time living down Prince John's short, tyrannical reign. Especially since foxes were another species they were trying to curry favor with.
Rowan: All that said, I don't really practice...pretty much all of Simbology. But I do occasionally pray to Hazel, or her mother, and naturally, their names have sort of bled into my speech.
Derrick: As that sort of thing tends to do.
Cameron: And you were worried that you wouldn't have enough to say about your beliefs. I think you actually went longer than Derrick.
Derrick: And you kept my interest the whole time, so bonus points for you boss mam'.
Rowan: Yes, well...I suppose I did. But now that I've said my piece, it's your turn Cam. I don't believe there's anyone waiting in the wings to allow you to stall further. *Chuckles*
Cameron: I suppose that's true. Not that this is...really a hard topic for me. My family used to practice the Norwulff Volking religion, as that's where my ancestors came from.
Derrick: Wait, but isn't that a wolf religion?
Cameron: Yes and no I suppose. Those in Norwulff were very...open to what constituted a mammal being a member of their pack, even more so after 'Lupa's declaration', and so there were many families of foxes that were previously Roaropean nomads that would become part of Norwulff's society, and integrate quite well despite our species natural propensity to be loners. Of course, foxes had already fit well into the Norwulff religion by way of Vulki, the trickster god and brother of Fenrir, god of thunder. *chuckles* How Vulki had no clue that he was not a child of his wolfish father Oldwyn, I can't imagine...but it certainly doesn't paint him as cunningly and wise as he is often portrayed.
Rowan: Always a trickster eh? No matter where you go...
Cameron: Though Vulki was a trickster, and did several reprehensible things after finding he was not born of Oldwyn, he did still love his adoptive family. And despite everything, Oldwyn would still call him his son, and Fenrir his brother. It was probably one of the more positive portrayals of a fox deity that wasn't directly born from foxes themselves. I suppose that's why the Norwulves were so accepting of us... for all our supposed faults, we were still canid brothers, and thus the stigma that came with being a fox didn't carry as strongly in those lands.
Rowan: But Marian and Robin are Saints in Simbology, not in the Norwulff canon, right?
Cameron: True, but they hold a great cultural significance to our kind, as they are one of the few instances of...positive portrayals of foxes from the perspective of another species, and a dominant one at that. The power of the Kittish and Pridelands Descendents was at its zenith around the time of Robin's deeds, and that meant it had a great deal of power of turning the perception of species as a whole around in the eyes of Animalia overall. So that's why most foxes hold them both in high regard whether they practice Simbology or not. And I hold that same reverence for them, even if I hold a disdain for Kitten and the Lionheart's Monarchy overall.
Rowan: Wait, why?
Cameron: Kingland and its rulers were just as expansionist as their fallen empire, and religion was one way in which they sought to remake that empire as you pointed out Row. But they also weren't shy about using their old tactics, specifically with Scottram in mind. As a Norwulff descendent, Scottram was our ally...so it's sort of an old blood feud. Of course, Robin fought for what he believed in, and Richard was one of the better kings. And thanks to Robin and Marian, foxes in Great Kitten rose to a higher social standing.
Derrick: So do foxes have...like any religion that is totally their own?
Cameron: Not really...most of our beliefs come piece meal from other societies we ingratiated ourselves into for the sake of survival. It was always easier to take on the host religion to more easily blend into the local fabric of society than stand out with gods of our own. Foxes have...historically been both largely a nomadic, and isolationist species. We didn't often form tribes, which would often cultivate shared belief systems until we started joining the villages and towns of other species outside of our own.
Rowan: And now for the million dollar question, although I think I'm already sure of the answer. Atheist?
Cameron: I was a casual Volking follower up until the death of my mate Marian. She just...her death was so horrible...and cruel...She...she suffered so badly and I-I just couldn't fathom a just or loving god that would make someone endure that, even if there was a so-called afterlife. So...I turned my back on all religion after that...
Rowan: Oh Cam...mam' I...I don't even know what to say.
Cameron: There's nothing to say...that's just the way it is I suppose. However, even after renouncing religion, well...the old curses and stuff like that sort of become buried in your language. Hence why I still refer to Marian, Robin, and Vulki from time to time. It's just...I mean it's hard to shake.
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